MOD play

[Dr_Dave]

doc, there weren't many 10 mullie events when 2k3 was released, and having been a reader of the forum on a regular basis, i can testify that no one was even commenting on the randomizing factor, much less complaining about it. it doesn't amount to very much, even with the longest clubs (but just enough). the only ones complaining about a minute chipping randomizing factor will be the green chippers (the 10 mullie guys will be cool with it because they never miss greens). considering the resulting good, we can live with it.

while it's unfortunate that it spoiled the 10 mullie am funners, this is coming from a guy who hasn't taken a mullie in competition since he started playing the tour in '98. and as a champ level player who couldn't hit two identical shots in a row if his life depended on it, i myself could never have noticed the randomizing factor. george was the only guy around here i know of who (lol) thought 2k3 pro was working a little weirdly. lw

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That's true Larry, and certainly the mappers were not going to make an issue of it. The mullie funners really brought it to light how much randomness had been put into the game. And with the new changes it sounds like there will even be more randomness.

Let me put it another way. If a guy playing pro figures out the distance on a par 3 and hits a perfect 12/6 snap his shot could miss a HIO by 6 feet due to the built in randomness factor. I'm not saying his shot should be a HIO, but he certainly executed the shot to give him the best chance of getting one. His buddy playing along with him could be off on his snap and get the HIO. So, all I was trying to say is that the more randomness, gusty, new chipping, mod putting etc. means the more influence the game will have in the scoring versus a players ability.

Hopefully a few intelligent players will have a chance to comment before Higgi jumps in with his sarcastic dribble.

[RoyHiggi]

Hahaha always the gentleman Dave I think you are wrong though with the 6 feet away for the perfect snap tho. More like 6 inches.

[Cheezer]

Well Roy I see what Dave is talking about concerning sarcasm. Dr. Dave's point is randomness thrown in on any shot is taking away from from what a talented player should accomplish if he hits a perfect 12-6 snap and knows exactly how many inches or feet or whatever to the left or right of the pin to put the ball in the hole. In other words just because you hit a perfect shot doesn't necessarily mean you will be rewarded but on the other hand if you are off just a bit and do not hit a perfect shot it might go in. How fair is that Roy ?

In every computer game there are always going to be people who try to find a way to cheat the game. You can type in cheats in your search engine and will come up with thousands of posts to cheat in a game. Links has done a very good job of avoiding this however mapping is about the only way to cheat Links other than of course those who chip on greens to avoid big breaks in putts. So to put a damper on those ways to cheat the game of Links someone decided to throw in randomness. In the end it has put in a luck factor in Links. Not to smart in my opinon. To stop a few it hurts the majority when on the occasion they do hit a perfect shot it possibly might go in or not depending on randomness or in other words luck. Matter of fact now that I think about it when you beat someone by one or two strokes over four rounds in a tourney you very possibly won because of luck in the randomness of the game instead of talent.

[GaryTaylor]

Well Roy I see what Dave is talking about concerning sarcasm. Dr. Dave's point is randomness thrown in on any shot is taking away from from what a talented player should accomplish if he hits a perfect 12-6 snap and knows exactly how many inches or feet or whatever to the left or right of the pin to put the ball in the hole. In other words just because you hit a perfect shot doesn't necessarily mean you will be rewarded but on the other hand if you are off just a bit and do not hit a perfect shot it might go in. How fair is that Roy ?

About as fair as missing the green by 20 yards and yet hitting a side hill around the green only to have the ball kick off of it and end up going into the hole?

A certain amount of luck will always be in any game, on the computer or IRL.

In every computer game there are always going to be people who try to find a way to cheat the game. You can type in cheats in your search engine and will come up with thousands of posts to cheat in a game. Links has done a very good job of avoiding this however mapping is about the only way to cheat Links other than of course those who chip on greens to avoid big breaks in putts. So to put a damper on those ways to cheat the game of Links someone decided to throw in randomness. In the end it has put in a luck factor in Links. Not to smart in my opinon. To stop a few it hurts the majority when on the occasion they do hit a perfect shot it possibly might go in or not depending on randomness or in other words luck. Matter of fact now that I think about it when you beat someone by one or two strokes over four rounds in a tourney you very possibly won because of luck in the randomness of the game instead of talent.

I believe a certain amount of randomness was put into Links to help bring down the scores of the top players in Links back in 2003 with the wind gusts. I really don't think this hurt the lower scoring players.

If you have 2 players that are that close in skill, then luck just might play a role in winning. Do you believe that "NO" luck at all was involved in Tigers great chip at Augusta?

As for those 10 mullie tours in ammy, they may as well have 50 mullies for me. I can never hole out a shot using a mullie!!! bahahahahaha!!!!!!!

[Dr_Dave]

As for those 10 mullie tours in ammy, they may as well have 50 mullies for me. I can never hole out a shot using a mullie!!! bahahahahaha!!!!!!!

I hear ya Gary. Actually, when I was playing the mullie funners with buddies, very few mullies were used to better a round score. They were used to try shots that we normally would not do in regular tournaments. I was in the rough and sand a lot more in those tournaments than the regular tourneys. I personally cannot practice Links golf, so the mullie funners with others using Skype was like having practice sessions. Pushing shots beyond your known capability provided a lot of laughs too.

[Cheezer]

Very True Gary. There is always in real golf and Links golf going to be luck involved. Tiger could have spent the rest of the afternoon that day trying to make that chip at Augusta go in the hole and probably would have never made it.

I guess what I am trying to say is for hackers like myself that rarely get hole outs compared to the studs in Links golf, when I do know that I have finally hit a perfect 12-6 snap and my speed was perfect I want to ball to go in the hole because of finally hitting it perfectly I should get my hole out. Actually I swear to god all my luck is 90% bad in this game. That's my story and I am sticking to it. BAHAHAHAHA

[RoyHiggi]

I also agree that a little randomness is a good thing for a golf sim.
IRL there is no way anybody will hit perfect consistant shots every single time.
IRL sometimes your swing path is off a bit.
IRL sometimes you do not hit the ball squarely on the club head.
IRL sometimes your swing speed is not exacty what you wanted.
IRL sometimes you get distracted by the hot beverage cart girl.

IMO it's the randomness that makes it more of a real golf sim.


This post earlier in the thread says it all for me. There is no way , no way at all that a golfer knows when he has hit a shot that it is going in the hole. Close yes but not in. It is or should be exactly the same in Links golf as far as I am concerned and the very very minor randomness may just help make that the case.

Gary you said in your last post " when I do know that I have finally hit a perfect 12-6 snap and my speed was perfect I want to ball to go in the hole because of finally hitting it perfectly I should get my hole out. " Are you really telling me that there are times when you know exactly what power to hit , and I mean exactly the power that you really believe that the ball will go in the hole. How do you KNOW it is exactly right? That isnt the way I think it does work and nor should it.

The only way I could accept that scenario is if you are playing the same shot on the same hole that you have played countless times before. If that is what we are talking about I concede but I don't think it is? Like many players on Links I hit shots that I instantly think are perfect and get close , maybe hit the pin , maybe lip out or just finish less than one inch away. That's the way it should be and not always dropping in because you have hit what you call is the perfect shot.
Holing out should have an amount of luck and I believe it does have. Sure the more you hit very close the more will drop that's inevitable , that's the law of averages I guess but I believe beacuse there is some luck in every hole out it is possible to have none in a week and then a bunch all at once. That's just the way it goes.

[Cheezer]

Roy, when I played in the fun tourney's with mullies in ammy it became very aparent how much the randomness kicked in. For instance let's say you have 130 yd shot with a completely flat green. I can state as a complete and true fact the following scenerio.

Hit a nine iron to perfect 12-6 and put my marker square on the hole. First shot it hits the pin and sits an inch away. Ok no problem that is as in real golf the breaks. So you try it again hoping that you get a good break and this time it goes in. Next shot perfect 12-6 with same iron and put the marker square on the pin. It goes 125 yds straight at the pin and is 5yds. short. What can't believe just what happened. Do it again I say. Same thing perfect 12-6 marker square on the hole. It goes exactly 130 yds but this time it goes 3 inches to the right of the pin. On and on. I probably had the same scenerio over many holes over many tournies in ammy with 10 mullies and always the randomness in Links only proved to me how much get a hole out is 98% luck. However I must say that playing ammy with mullies taught me a great deal and I learned a lot that helps me in pro.

To sum it up yes I understand that luck especially in real golf is huge. But this is not real golf it is a video game. Don't even think about comparing a video game of golf with real golf. I want my golf sim to give me my shots when I know I hit a perfect shot. It only happens maybe five percent of the time. When I do I want my reward not a chance of luck. In real golf all we can do is hope when we hit a good shot that is within a couple of feet for an easy putt. Once in a blue moon we get lucky with hole out. But that is real golf not a golf sim where you sit in a chair clicking a mouse. Give me a break and quit referring to real golf when you post messages. Real golf and sim golf has about as much in common as black and white.

[KCJammer]

Hit a nine iron to perfect 12-6 and put my marker square on the hole. First shot it hits the pin and sits an inch away. Ok no problem that is as in real golf the breaks. So you try it again hoping that you get a good break and this time it goes in. Next shot perfect 12-6 with same iron and put the marker square on the pin. It goes 125 yds straight at the pin and is 5yds. short. What can't believe just what happened. Do it again I say. Same thing perfect 12-6 marker square on the hole. It goes exactly 130 yds but this time it goes 3 inches to the right of the pin. On and on.

What may appear to the eye to be a perfect 12-6, may actually be something slightly less than perfect. You may have over- or under-swung to such a small degree that the graphics don't depict it. All "perfect 12-6's" are not necessarilly what they appear to be. You may have been ever so slightly off of a perfect 12-6, but didn't realize it, because the miss was so small, it couldn't be depicted.

[RoyHiggi]

Interesting Cheezer. Firstly I think I do like to ralate things to real golf as with a golf sim I do like things to simulate real golf where it can. I am one who likes the sim idea more than just the video idea. Yeah I know -18 scores make that sounds silly but that's why I like elite and the struggles and scrambles that can bring. But you can't have everything and I am only too aware that a game where only level par type scores would not appeal to the vast majority.

Anyway back to the randomness thing. I guess we will disagree that there should be a randomness thing in the game so that hole outs dont just happen because you hit a snap ( top and bottom ) but I think what KCJ says must be the case for the sample you just tried.

I had to give it a go myself and went to the 9th at St. Andys put the ball in the fairway and hit 10 shots exactly the same at the pin. I hit 10 shots with a 9 iron 100% the same witha perfect 12 oclock snap ( as far as I could tell from the meter) and every single one landed at 121 yards bounced to 125 yards and stopped 6.1 feet away from the pin.
I then adjusted my aim tried a pw shot and aimed at the pin ( I rotated to the pin to achieve that) 10 in a row went into the hole. Maybe its just with T shots there is a randomness built in.

[RoyHiggi]

So then I went to a flat green par at Covered Bridge and hit exactly the same shot and spot on there were differences in basically every shot. Absolutely brilliant and well done to the programmers I say as to hit a shot and know that from say 160 yards it will fall in the hole just has to be wrong imo.
I feel it would make a mockery of the game as was proved when that player got an ace on all 4 par 3's at Chateau in a tournament round and as obviously was agreed when the minor randomness was built into T shots.

Anyway playing now how would anybody know or think they know when they have hit that perfect shot which should go in?

[GaryTaylor]

Thought I would check out this MOD 106 in the Pro mode and came up with a pretty funny looking MOD shot. Check it out here... http://home.comcast.net/~littlered/MOD_Roll.SHT

The shot above was my 2nd shot at a par 5 from about 230+ yards out. The greens were firm/medium. The ball is tracking right at the hole, but because it is down hill it picks up steam on this MOD green and goes by the hole about 35 feet, then it takes a right hand turn for about 10 feet, then it does a complete U Turn and starts to come back at the hole!! bahahahaha!!!!!!

It did stop 15 feet short though

Which leads me to my first tip in putting on MOD greens. ALWAYS check to see if the green is down hill AFTER the hole!!! Because if it is, the ball might be stopping at the hole if you miss it, and then that doggie just keeps rolling, and rolling, and...........

Didn't score to well, but it was fun and interesting to play another form of Links play.

[ErnieB]

Why would a perfect 6:00 snap make any difference at Amateur level?

[tryandtyoneon]

Why would a perfect 6:00 snap make any difference at Amateur level?

It does, but thx for for letting me be the one to clue you in

[RoyHiggi]

Does it make a difference if you miss by just a little bit or do you have to miss 6 by quite a margin?