The RTS Edging Challenge

[HeavySwinger]

OK, so here is the deal. I have heard this edging stuff for years, so I would like to verify my suspicion that edging doesn't really work. Why do I think edging doesn't work?

1. It is too easy to hit perfectly straight over 90% and nearly straight 100% of the time if you just properly adjust your mouse sensitivity in windows.

2. Edging would make it more difficult to swing the mouse smoothly and achieve distance control and good club head speed.

Now I could experiment for myself and try it out enough to prove or disprove my theory, but that would take awhile and would not be much fun for me. So I've come up with a more enjoyable method which I've dubbed the "RTS Edging Challenge".

It's in two phases, the first involves private head-to-head matches - you, the edger, against me, the non-edger. In this phase you definitely don't have to "come out of the closet" and I will keep identities secret. Just send me a PM and we will set up a match.

The second phase is public tournaments which I will set up in the arcade for all you edgers who are willing to come out (or maybe not). I would invite both edgers and non-edgers to this tournament and those who play in it can indicate to me in private via PM or publically in this forum whether they edged or not .

My final goal would be to post the numerical results and determine whether edging works or not.

[RR_Desperado]

I have talked to a couple RTS`ers who say that the only time edging helps is off the tee with a driver where you are only going for long and straight. They also felt that for approach shots or the short game it was detrimental.

[RoyHiggi]

Larry , first of all I would have to say I have played against you in the past and I am 100% certain you do not edge as I have seen the slight imperfections in the swing when hitting " straight".Those slight imperfections mean there is a possibility to find the rough on occasion. I have also played against the odd other rtser where I have thought he/she did edge because the stroke was " perfect "

That said my guess is that not many do edge and probably those that do are not at the top of the ladder anyway. Though I do know of one top player who admitted edging a year or so back and apparently doesnt anymore but who knows.

I doubt very much you will get a taker for your challenge but it will be interesting if you do. One thing I wanted to ask about though is this bit about adjusting the mouse sensitivity! It sounds as though by doing this you could make a poor swing into a good one just by this adjustment , is that right? Kind of like hitting a bad click snap in pro but it goes as if playing amateur? That's not the way it works is it?

[GDI_Coyote]

I work with a guy who used to rival you Roy.....upandin.Remember his scores RTSing?

I don't edge Heavy,but i'll show ya how to work the ball left or right at will.I find it takes off distance but the swing plane sure looks pretty.

Steve

[RoyHiggi]

I do remember upandin , I think Old age you know. Was that when I was playing RTS too?

[LH13241]

Though I do know of one top player who admitted edging a year or so back and apparently doesn't anymore but who knows.

One thing I wanted to ask about though is this bit about adjusting the mouse sensitivity! It sounds as though by doing this you could make a poor swing into a good one just by this adjustment .......

Roy, since you are talking about me, might as well answer.
First, it was 3 years ago when I admitted to soft edging because lots of people dint consider it as edging (using a hard edge). I was guiding my small finger along the edge of the mouse pad at the time. The last year of playing in that league, I stop using the mouse pad, therefore no longer soft edge.

As for the mouse sensitivity, ABSOLUTELY...
When I play, I make it very sensitive, little movement of the mouse (the more the back and front movement of the mouse, the greater the possibility of being of the straight path)
The best way I can explain is this, my wrist doesn't or barely moves, my thumb and 4th and 5th finger (being the pinky) are the only one touching the mouse, creating a pressure on both side, I then move them inwards for the back swing and push them out for the follow through.

Been playing like this for 3 years now and works great
Yes I do loose CHS (not always) that is the reason I play a lot with the loft of every club

Hope this helps (now my secret is out)

As for those who use a straight edge, I don't really mind as they still have to manage the slopes of the fairways, the greens and the wind. Of course I'm talking champ or elite!!

[Footwedge]

I have been told that the best benefit from edging comes at the Elite level , and quite a bit at champ as well , which sort of makes sense considering the snap is the key element in the harder levels. From my experience in the Masters I know of 1 guy( no names mentioned) who is average at best in pro very good at champ and extremely good at elite. In my opinion this is a dead give away. I dont let it bother me though. Just go out and shoot your own best score and let the scores fall as they will.

[RoyHiggi]

Champ and elite is where it makes a difference. I think I saw an RTSers stats here which showed approx 5 stroke difference between pro rts and champ rts. The champ average being 5 shots better than pro

[GDI_Coyote]

I believe you were Roy .I'm 100%positive he edged(I saw his set up).Had dots on a cd case he put on his monitor for putting,chipping,etc.Always rotated when he putted because he counted break lines.I'd have a chance if i could ever convince him to play RAW.I always gave him shidookie about it but it was what he found fun.Well,the shooting lights out added to the fact he made quite a few complain was his fun.

Now i try to take his money on the real links.His back is out this week so it'll be twice as bad on him next round

Steve

[HeavySwinger]

I have talked to a couple RTS`ers who say that the only time edging helps is off the tee with a driver where you are only going for long and straight. They also felt that for approach shots or the short game it was detrimental.

This made me curious about the effect on driving (be aware I play RTS Pro, so I can't comment on Champ or Elite). So I grabbed the nearest CD Jewel Case and tried using it to guide the left side of my mouse which appeared to be straight (Logitech G5). I went to the Complex 275 yard hole and tried some drives both with and without the jewel case. The result was the jewel case worked and the drives were perfectly straight, but all my drives without the jewel case were perfectly straight also. The only difference I saw was a slight loss in CHS with the jewel case. I attribute this to the fact I'm not used to swinging with the case interfering with my grip on the mouse. I sincerely doubt that using the jewel case would make any difference in my RTS Pro scoring after I got used to it, but it would wear out the left side of my mouse.

[HeavySwinger]

Larry , first of all I would have to say I have played against you in the past and I am 100% certain you do not edge as I have seen the slight imperfections in the swing when hitting " straight".Those slight imperfections mean there is a possibility to find the rough on occasion. I have also played against the odd other rtser where I have thought he/she did edge because the stroke was " perfect "

That said my guess is that not many do edge and probably those that do are not at the top of the ladder anyway. Though I do know of one top player who admitted edging a year or so back and apparently doesnt anymore but who knows.

I doubt very much you will get a taker for your challenge but it will be interesting if you do. One thing I wanted to ask about though is this bit about adjusting the mouse sensitivity! It sounds as though by doing this you could make a poor swing into a good one just by this adjustment , is that right? Kind of like hitting a bad click snap in pro but it goes as if playing amateur? That's not the way it works is it?

My swing imperfections were showing, how embarrasing . Actually I have a better, more well adjusted mouse nowadays on a newer computer, so I get really straight shots and better club head speed now. Not to worry though Roy, I'll never get up to your level of play.

About the mouse adjustments, I just simply lower the sensitivity of the mouse in the windows control panel (actually using Logitec setpoint) so I can still get enough clubhead speed without having so much sensitivity that tiny left to right mouse movements are exaggerated. I don't want to have all left to right motion eliminated though, because then I couldn't hit a fade shot which can come in handy at times. So to answer directly, it won't make a bad swing good, but it does make a good swing better.

[HeavySwinger]

Though I do know of one top player who admitted edging a year or so back and apparently doesn't anymore but who knows.

One thing I wanted to ask about though is this bit about adjusting the mouse sensitivity! It sounds as though by doing this you could make a poor swing into a good one just by this adjustment .......

Roy, since you are talking about me, might as well answer.
First, it was 3 years ago when I admitted to soft edging because lots of people dint consider it as edging (using a hard edge). I was guiding my small finger along the edge of the mouse pad at the time. The last year of playing in that league, I stop using the mouse pad, therefore no longer soft edge.

As for the mouse sensitivity, ABSOLUTELY...
When I play, I make it very sensitive, little movement of the mouse (the more the back and front movement of the mouse, the greater the possibility of being of the straight path)
The best way I can explain is this, my wrist doesn't or barely moves, my thumb and 4th and 5th finger (being the pinky) are the only one touching the mouse, creating a pressure on both side, I then move them inwards for the back swing and push them out for the follow through.

Been playing like this for 3 years now and works great
Yes I do loose CHS (not always) that is the reason I play a lot with the loft of every club

Hope this helps (now my secret is out)

As for those who use a straight edge, I don't really mind as they still have to manage the slopes of the fairways, the greens and the wind. Of course I'm talking champ or elite!!

If you notice my reply above, you will see we each use the opposite method of swinging straight. I have to move my mouse several inches to make a swing. I do the same thing with Powerstroke where I take a fairly large sweeping swing.

[HeavySwinger]

I believe you were Roy .I'm 100%positive he edged(I saw his set up).Had dots on a cd case he put on his monitor for putting,chipping,etc.Always rotated when he putted because he counted break lines.I'd have a chance if i could ever convince him to play RAW.I always gave him shidookie about it but it was what he found fun.Well,the shooting lights out added to the fact he made quite a few complain was his fun.

Now i try to take his money on the real links.His back is out this week so it'll be twice as bad on him next round

Steve

Steve, this post was a real eye opener for me. I can see the value of the edge at Champ or Elite, not so much to help swing straight, but more for those marks which would compensate for the missing RTS swing bar which tells me in PRO how far I have taken back the club.

[HeavySwinger]

Even with all the above stuff, I'm still interested in playing head to head against someone using edging, just so they can show me what good it does. You get to pick the course and conditions.

[RoyHiggi]

Hmmmm sounds like on pro lowering the sensitivity helps the straightness but that isn't a great issue on pro v click because you can miss snap on pro and not get much pull / push anyway ( if any at all) BUT if you play champ and it allows an imperfect swing to not affect the shot ( the line of the shot) then it's a big thing .( a big thing when comparing click v RTS anyway)

For me a bad ( imperfect) swing on any mode of play should be a bad swing and should cause a problem unless you allowed for it with your aim. On some courses if you aim at the middle of the fairway and miss the snap , playing champ or elite , by the smallest margin possible you find the rough and that is the way it should.

In my opinion if you amend the sensitivity of the mouse so much that a miss wing has virtually no effect and the ball will still sail down the fairway then that is wrong. It really does sound like you can tweak settings so that a champ RTS T shot can go like an amateur RTS T shot!

OK I should go away and mind my own business but I really feel I would be saying this if I were a champ RTS player. The whole reason for playing champ and elite is to play a harder version of the game surely?