Pin Positions - FLHT 2022-23 #6

[BitLeft]

This isn't a grump, just a curiosity question, re. Barton Creek Fazio Foothills (2003) aka #1136. I saved my scorecard for Round 2 to One Note and noticed that 3 of the pins were described as position 18.

Looking at the pins as shown in Conditions > Custom Pin Positions, I only see the often used 0 - 17 display that runs Easy to Medium to Difficult. Any idea how an 18th pin choice can get added for a tournament? This has possibilities.

[pmgolf]

In the APCD, the pins are numbered 0-17. In the Links game, those same pins are numbered 1-18.

Pete

[BitLeft]

In the APCD, the pins are numbered 0-17. In the Links game, those same pins are numbered 1-18.

Pete

Slow learner here. I played Pelican Hill (2003) (aka #1147) back in September, and for Round 1 the Custom Pin Positions were listed as:
0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3. Also a Microsoft Course. I'm just not getting the difference between APCD and the Links game. If I play in Links and set it to [Show all pin positions in the game] for Barton Creek I'm still seeing 0 to 17, not 1 to 18. Would you be able to break this down more for me?

My goal here has been to make a note of pin positions, so that I can go back and replicate playing on a course exactly as it was set up for the Tournament Round. Attempting to break my already remarkable personal course record I need to better understand how the APCD and Links pin position numbering relates. Thnx

[pmgolf]

I was completely wrong - and reversed! Pin numbers 0-17 in the Links game are displayed as numbers 1-18 in the APCD. Why is 0 thru 17 used? People know what 0 is, but computers think that it's a valid number. Forget about what the APCD does.

More to the point, though. Where are you seeing pin #18? Pins are displayed as 0 thru 17 in the Score.txt file and the .VER file. There are 18 possible pin positions: the first 3 are 0, 1 and 2, and the last 3 are 15, 16 and 17.

Pete

[BitLeft]

I tried to attach some jpg's to illustrate an answer to your question, but apparently I am limited to 256KB. Hmmm.

What I hoped to show you was... jpg #1 What One Note looked like for the BCR game that I played online. The 18's are there, honest! jpg #2 was to illustrate where I'm going within Links to get the score card info to go to One Note when I finish my round. Been doing this for years. jpg #3 - well, well. I just set up BCR for a Round - not Practice - and set the pins 0 to 17 - one per hole. Not an 18 in sight, when I view the scorecard I sent to One Note. Sigh. Case closed, I guess.

Maybe this has something to do with how the Tournament pins are set up? What I will say is that I really appreciate when a Round is described as Easy/Moderate/Difficult pins in the Preview info, and the pins are actually set to that difficulty level. I know it's not always that simple, depending on what impression the moderator gets in reviewing the pin ratings vs. the reality of the green in question. But consistency and continuity are a concept. As to the oldie goldie Microsoft courses with "5 Easy pins". Don't get me started.

Thanks for your help with this.

[pmgolf]

Just one more thing... Easy, Moderate and Difficult pins each describe someone's mental concept of the meaning of the word. There are no guidelines of each word that can be used be the designer when placing pins. The best designers understood the words - Mike Jones and Robert Miller - but 90% of the rest completely miss-label the difficulty. Go into "Practice" mode, select a course, in custom pins, check the checkbox for "show all pin positions in the game", and go look at the greens. Look at a Mike Jones or Robert Miller course and see what a "difficult" pin looks like - and what an "easy" pin looks like. Then go look at someone else's course design and check their interpretation of "difficult" and "easy".

You can't count on selecting "difficult" for your pins and expect to actually get "difficult" pins. The same with "easy" pins. Look at one of Sage's courses. I've seen "difficult" pins that are on a completely flat surface. It's not his fault though, nobody has ever provided a definition for what makes a pin "difficult" - or "moderate" - or "easy". The moral of this story is that in order to get the level of difficulty that you want, you need to make a quick pass through the greens in practice mode and select the ones you like.

Pete

[BitLeft]

Some really good thoughts here. I've done that 'tour the greens with all pins showing' piece and find it does help know what's in store. It is a time consumer. And totally with you that "interpretation" rules, and I honor the notion that the Designer owns the show. I don't envy the moderators trying to decide on positions for a tournament.

I've also begun to realize that what makes a pin claim a particular degree of difficulty can depend not just on the green, but also on the location of the pin relative to hazards. A pin on a pancake flat green, but where it's a tee's toss from the water or a bunker or a defending face gives pause for thought. Again with thanks. Off I go to Round 3. Or the autumn yard work. Now which is more important