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I did read the entire post. I will not comment on this any further. Thanks for your efforts.

I want to say what I do regarding pin positions (and I can only speak to PLSA).

1) In practice mode (putting only, with all pins showing) and for the conditions of the round, I go to every hole.
2) I move the ball all around looking at the pin positions.
3) When I find a candidate, I putt from 4' and 10', from 12, 3, 6 and 9 O'Clock. From above the hole I miss on purpose to see how far by it goes. From below the hole I miss on purpose to make sure the ball will not come back to my feet.
4) If I like the hole I make my notes.
5) Multiply 1) - 4) by 4 for the four rounds.

It's very time-consuming... like I said 4 or more hours.

Another time-consuming part of the setup is picking courses similar to the Pro Tour course when the Pro Tour course is not available in Links. I usually donate $10 for every 4 courses I download from linkstour... so sometimes this is costly as well as time-consuming... and I'll admit sometimes I settle on a course I'm not real happy with because I just get tired of looking.

What's really hard is using an early or Microsoft course because it's the real course and because it's all that's available. Thank goodness some great APCD designers have worked hours and hours to create replacements.

Sounds like a lot of work. Thanks for the explanation. I sincerely wondered.

While I can do without the aggravation and stress that "gusty" conditions present, ("Breezy" and "windy" are fine), I sincerely appreciate all the time and money that people put forth to keep this great game going forward for the rest of us.
As to pin positions, sometimes I wonder if all that effort is necessary since we are all playing the same conditions and pins in a tournament. So it's fair.

KunkleMan wrote:As to pin positions, sometimes I wonder if all that effort is necessary since we are all playing the same conditions and pins in a tournament. So it's fair.

I agree that it's the same for all. If I were only selecting pins for say amateur or pro and non-challenging, I'd simply click "random" and save myself a lot of work.

For champ or elite and challenging, while it would still be the same for all, it can often be ridiculous. Nobody should be faced with a 20 foot uphill putt that unless he makes it ends up with a 22 ft shot either putting again or chipping from off the green. Similarly, a ticklish 3 foot putt downhill that if missed would with certainty be off the green. Believe me there are pins like that.

I know that my pin selections for PLSA likely result in the -70s I see in pro non-challenging. Trying to be fair to all.

I will make this a 3 part reply. First to Doug Hurst, then Roy and then Mississippi & Crowter.
Doug Hurst: Im not sure why you get upset if you and i disagree on something. I am a natural slow
links player. My routine is like this. Look at the the lie, look at the green, check the yardage, an
then adjust for up or down. Next is aim an then hit the ball. But, if there is breezy or gusty i factor that in.
Also in breezy or gusty i wait until it dies all the way down. If windy i do the opposite an wait until
it is full strength. I play online, so between holes i see the leaderboard. Many time i have seen Richard and Dirk
zoom by me. Its like they are playing 4 holes to my one. An they shoot very good scores. I just don't have
that ability. I do not mind the wind from a scoring point, just a time issue. But thats my problem
not yours. I appreciate the no wind rounds that you have put in for sometime now. And, the setup
for US Open was / is great. So don't worry about my posts, take them with a grain of salt, your doing a good
job. An one last thing when you refer to non-challenging, lets remember that was the heart of Links in the
good old days. Hundreds or more entered the plsa weekly and there was a cut. And the cream of the crop, the best of
the best played in this, Im sure you remember. Thanks

Roy: You and i have had a nice relationship over the years. I think we started around the same time. That being
said, i feel like you will not get upset with me for the following. That has to do with George(LACERS). You may
wonder why am i bringing him up. Well, in your posts you refer to competition an competitive at times. This brings up
George because he is real competition for you. Yet, it has seemed as if you made an effort to chase him away or
give him a hard time. (maybe it was all in fun). But he said he went out an bought a new monitor. He seemed all ready
to play. Then he stated that he was treated bad around here, and then he was gone. Also Ragnar,Drunkbob,Elwood an McLovin
an maybe others are gone too. Very strange they leave as he does. Anyway just my two cents. And, to answer your question it is time.

Mississippi & Crowter: So sorry that DougMM troubled you. It was just a case of trying to have some fun.
no intention of doing something out of line. But, he is gone now not to return.

MasterMontgomery wrote:I will make this a 3 part reply. First to Doug Hurst, then Roy and then Mississippi & Crowter.
Doug Hurst: Im not sure why you get upset if you and i disagree on something.

I was only upset because you lumped PLSA in with CLSC in the subject. I've not used WINDY in the last year and GUSTY only once. There has been at least one and sometimes two NO WIND rounds every week after your earlier post. I asked Mark for one and he often puts two.

"I was only upset because you lumped PLSA in with CLSC and I've not had WINDY EVER in the last year... and GUSTY only once.

Got to PREVIOUS (goes back to August 2) and check.
GoesForIt"

I believe you.

MasterMontgomery wrote:I will make this a 3 part reply. First to Doug Hurst, then Roy and then Mississippi & Crowter.
Doug Hurst: Im not sure why you get upset if you and i disagree on something. I am a natural slow
links player. My routine is like this. Look at the the lie, look at the green, check the yardage, an
then adjust for up or down. Next is aim an then hit the ball. But, if there is breezy or gusty i factor that in.
Also in breezy or gusty i wait until it dies all the way down. If windy i do the opposite an wait until
it is full strength. I play online, so between holes i see the leaderboard. Many time i have seen Richard and Dirk
zoom by me. Its like they are playing 4 holes to my one. An they shoot very good scores. I just don't have
that ability. I do not mind the wind from a scoring point, just a time issue. But thats my problem
not yours. I appreciate the no wind rounds that you have put in for sometime now. And, the setup
for US Open was / is great. So don't worry about my posts, take them with a grain of salt, your doing a good
job. An one last thing when you refer to non-challenging, lets remember that was the heart of Links in the
good old days. Hundreds or more entered the plsa weekly and there was a cut. And the cream of the crop, the best of
the best played in this, Im sure you remember. Thanks

Roy: You and i have had a nice relationship over the years. I think we started around the same time. That being
said, i feel like you will not get upset with me for the following. That has to do with George(LACERS). You may
wonder why am i bringing him up. Well, in your posts you refer to competition an competitive at times. This brings up
George because he is real competition for you. Yet, it has seemed as if you made an effort to chase him away or
give him a hard time. (maybe it was all in fun). But he said he went out an bought a new monitor. He seemed all ready
to play. Then he stated that he was treated bad around here, and then he was gone. Also Ragnar,Drunkbob,Elwood an McLovin
an maybe others are gone too. Very strange they leave as he does. Anyway just my two cents. And, to answer your question it is time.

Mississippi & Crowter: So sorry that DougMM troubled you. It was just a case of trying to have some fun.
no intention of doing something out of line. But, he is gone now not to return.

No chance of you upsetting me Doug. but the idea I was trying to chase him away is way way wide of the mark. Can't really remember what I said but it would all have been in fun. The competition from him would have been great. IF he genuinely took it badly and threw his toys out ( figuratively) .... well I just don't know what to say. My memory tels me used to get awful stick back in the day and it never seemed to bother him much because he was able to churn out perfect scores week in week out. Maybe that's what he wasn't able to replicate hence has hasn't carried on playing.

As for the other disappearances at the same time it sort of reaffirms what I thought anyway.

The time thing on the other point I understand. I think the same at times but in a different way on the plus side it's a real challenge and it makes me concentrate a bit which I need.

MasterMontgomery wrote:
Mississippi & Crowter: So sorry that DougMM troubled you. It was just a case of trying to have some fun.
no intention of doing something out of line. But, he is gone now not to return.

Playing the same tournament round with two players is out of line in my opinion, since one is either mapping for the other, or intentions of better ball are suggested. Either way an advantage over the rest of the field has been achieved. If one player has been retired the issue shouldn't come up again.

The notion that real life wind is less fickle than the one in Links seems quite strange to me as well (with the exception of Gusty I guess, which may arguably be on the extreme side), obviously depends on location around the world but I would think most golfing locations are similar enough to what Im used to, wind changes directions and strength all the time in the real world, especially up in the air! Gusty type of real life wind isnt exactly uncommon in my experience either.

I also struggle to understand why rounds with wind should take significantly longer time to play, I could understand on Gusty setting a slight bit maybe, but waiting to take shots until wind is exactly how one wants it all the time? I mean ok I understand why one would go with that method if only playing for results and arent bothered with time, but the time complaint to me seems very puzzling if one is actively choosing to wait around about it oneself. I get that people have their habits and like to stick with them though, and people should certainly play how they want, I dont mean to attack anyone's preferences, I simply have a hard time understanding why playing with a wind that isnt 100% obedient is so abhorrent to some.

Geezuz Guys and Gals. Regarding wind conditions in every round it's really, really easy to figure out. All you have to do is to select a tournament/event you'd like to play in AND THEN check the conditions! If it has too much wind or too many F's in it then make a decision from there to either play the tournament/event or go on to the next one. IT'S NOT THAT DIFFICULT.

Interesting thread.

I guess I'm still in a very small minority that wants and prefers at least 1 Windy round every event. NW turns the event into a snapping and eagle contest; Breezy isn't significantly more difficult either (I average 1 stroke worse). Maybe when Windy is more prevalent on the tour events I'll play more.

If you want to deflect the blame from Roy to me for Lacers leaving I will gladly accept it. He's a snake. Always has been, always will be. I don't like him, don't trust him and am glad he's gone. Addition by subtraction in my opinion. I'm sure people will not like me saying that and think I'm a jerk but I don't care. My reasons are numerous, personal and go back 20 years.

--AJ

Wow AJ i did not know. Sorry to hear that. It would be nice to see
you back in the plsa. Make Roy work harder.


Doug

MasterMontgomery wrote:
Mississippi & Crowter: So sorry that DougMM troubled you. It was just a case of trying to have some fun.
no intention of doing something out of line. But, he is gone now not to return.