Charles Schwab (Colonial Country Club)

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Charles Schwab (Colonial Country Club)

Postby GoesForIt on Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:35 pm

Guys, I tried my hardest to pick all fair pin positions. The only ones having problems will be those in the Challenging Mode.

This course has lots of trouble... especially if you miss fairways. There are almost no flat spots on any green... especially considering that I have no control over where the APCD designer puts them.

Have fund.
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Re: Charles Schwab (Colonial Country Club)

Postby RoyHiggi on Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:40 pm

Tis indeed a serious challenge and not just on challenging :lol:

I would consider playing for the rough with T shots but you are likely to find yourself behind a tree!! Even on one fairway I managed (not even at the edge of the fairway and I had deliberately laid short in an attempt to negate spin) there were overhanging branches I thought I would go under.

My next shot was 45 yards further back :evil:

It will be interesting how it plays the last 2 rounds when the greens are not soft as that is the real killer
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Re: Charles Schwab (Colonial Country Club)

Postby GoesForIt on Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:33 pm

RoyHiggi wrote:Tis indeed a serious challenge and not just on challenging :lol:

I would consider playing for the rough with T shots but you are likely to find yourself behind a tree!! Even on one fairway I managed (not even at the edge of the fairway and I had deliberately laid short in an attempt to negate spin) there were overhanging branches I thought I would go under.

My next shot was 45 yards further back :evil:

It will be interesting how it plays the last 2 rounds when the greens are not soft as that is the real killer


I had forgotten just how challenging it is. Not a course I play frequently. I can see why Ben Hogan loved it. They say he once said something to the effect that it's the only golf course where hitting the ball straight can get you into trouble.

I think Eric Dorsey did a great job on the course. Not sure what he used to undulate the greens. There are few if any straight putts.

There were a couple of pin positions I was not happy with, but even in F(C) in the final two rounds my problems were not with the greens.
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Re: Charles Schwab (Colonial Country Club)

Postby Adelade on Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:44 am

I can shed some light on this (I picked pins for the 2020 version). As per the 2004 readme, Eric Dorsey initially used "a 2’ contour map shot specifically for the purpose of refurbishing Colonial’s golf course in 1999" in making the course, and he also mentions that "the elevations on the course you are playing are almost exact!". Its clear that his map didnt show elevations in particular detail though, since most greens are quite unrealistic when played with realistic green speeds, the stracka chart for 9th green furthermore proved that the greens werent accurate. I know Dorsey had seen the greens close up with his own eyes, Im fairly certain he used that experience to model the greens instead. He had several people comment on the severity of the greens all those years back, and softened them in some places for his 2007 version, however it sounds like he did it reluctantly, so for the most part they remained quite severe.

Now for the 2020 update 3 particular greens were remodelled after real stracka green charts by Dan Deshaney, namely 2nd, 9th and 11th, so those are currently very accurate (at least for how the course was up until some years ago when certain things were changed in real life). We (me and Dan) tried to get Dorsey to agree to changing the other greens as well but it was a no-go, he refused to have them altered even the slightest bit. I did my best to pick pin spots but some greens were a nightmare to work with, I decided to lower my usual standard for how much slope I could tolerate for pins (and proximity to severe slopes), because I felt forced to - it was either that or else crowd all pins together really close to eachother on the few tolerable spots... I know many people are ok with steeper slope for pins than I am, so I think it made sense to lower my standards for some pins at least in order to leave less green sections completely without any pins. For anyone playing above Mc/Mc I strongly recommend handpicking pins (on Mc/Mc too if being a picky person like myself).

There was also the aspect of setting pins for how they used them in PGA events which Eric Dorsey requested, the lowest 4 number pins are based on those real life locations, but some greens had extreme sloping at those spots so all I could do was compromise and put them as close as I could where I thought it was at least playable for Mc/Mc.

Dorsey says he plans on making another update in the future, to include all the changes to the real course that has been made in the past 5 or so (I think) years. Lets hope he changes greens too : ) I personally think the greens are quite enjoyable now though as long as handpicking pins.
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Re: Charles Schwab (Colonial Country Club)

Postby GoesForIt on Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:15 am

Adelade wrote:I can shed some light on this
...


Very insightful and helpful. Thanks for taking the time to explain.
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Re: Charles Schwab (Colonial Country Club)

Postby RoyHiggi on Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:30 am

Very interesting stuff. I don't have much problem with tough greens and even pin positions ( with the exception of those that all always roll back to your feet and beyond !). The only issue I had was the pin positions for soft spinning greens. I have no idea if there are any positions that would be playable for soft/fast but it was seriously difficult to keep " good shots" on the greens.

No doubt at all that with moderate fast it was perfectly playable
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