Playing from sand

[terrell]

hmmm, i respect your opinion in all things, desperado, so your comments concern me. this all started with chip_jett calling links flawed because irl he hits the same club out of fairway bunkers. conventional wisdom (and yes, there are mutants that hit sand wedges out of fairway bunkers 230 yards, but that's not the point here) dictates the average person clubs down a club or two. links has been a passion/obsession of mine for a decade, so i'm (i think) understandably touchy.

i disagree i've been sarcastic to anyone with a technical question. if i have, then for that i would be truly apologetic.

[RR_Desperado]

Condesending git and clueless peeps are two of your milder responses lately, but you did say you were trying to tone it down !! I was just giving you a nudge, Terrel, that might get you to consider your responses to some that you may disagree with or some that may try your patience.
Not that you are alone, by any means. I have noticed that the whole tone of this forum is getting a bit combative.

[Larry_Warrilow]

i made the observation when 2k3 first came out that (at champ) the fairway bunker shot is the only shot at links that i can play better in real life than on the game. the guys over at apcd-courses who have had a look at the game code have stated that the designers merely adopted a set percentage increase in difficulty of all shots as the levels got tougher which explains the unrealistically poor chances for a decent recovery for the average champ player from a fairway trap.

i don't think i've ever moved a ball more than 160 yards from a champ fairway trap. mostly i look for a safe spot in the fairway and lay up with whatever short club gets it done. that also means i'm laying up a lot off the tee to avoid those traps as if they were the black death.

i agree with those who hope for some kind of realistic adjustment of fairway sand difficulty if the game ever has a comprehensive update. it's the one champ level defect that unrealistically affects the play of all we average champ guys. lw

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[RR_Desperado]

Totally agree ,Larry. It has always been my one major complaint about champ. On some courses, laying up a few yards doesn`t adversely affect that much but on so many of the newer APCD`s it can make a major difference. So many of them feature close to 500 yard par 4`s that you leave yourself a long wood approach if you lay up.Of course those same designers have a penchant for traps around 275 to 280 off the tee, too.LOL !!

[Larry_Warrilow]

B, on some of the new tracks designed for 1.06 distance off the tee (either of the last two augusta national models et al), i know exactly how corey pavin feels. i average about 256 off the tee at champ (usually the shortest guy at the champ level), but it's still possible to grind it around if my short game is working. but once it gets beyond 7400 yards, at champ windy, i might well start looking elsewhere. lw

[Harpo]

Even thou the fairway sand shot at champ/elite is somewhat unfair I think it helps in a couple of ways. 1. It keeps the scores more realistic. 2. It makes one think more off the tee. If you look at the new plugged lie that was introduced, I think most players know about how much more club to add to hit a good shot into the green. (that is if you notice it before you swing) Is that what we want for the fairway sand shot now? I think it should be add to the pro mode myself.
Maybe a random good hit/ok hit. Just my take.

I did hear that Tiger top a 5w (?) out of the fairway trap on 18 didn't he.

[Armand]

You are correct, Jim. Tiger did top a 5W from the bunker on 18 (not sure if it was the 2nd or 3rd round?). In Elite mode with the PS swing, I find that the 5W is the most consistent club for me from the fairway bunkers; however, my swing results in a 200ish yard shot, so I have to ensure there are no hazards in that range (and that hole is sufficiently long!). With irons, I find I need 40 yards more than the distance to compensate. To me, that's more than I'm used to IRL, where I normally take one club more than normal.

Armand

[RoyHiggi]

I say make it impossible to get out a bunker first shot and then maybe peeps wont go int them as often. But please whatever is done don't let it be made easier.

[Larry_Warrilow]

while tiger indeed topped one out of the right hand fairway bunker on the par 5 #18 at torrey pines on friday, on saturday, from almost the identical spot (same club: 5w), he hit it 236 yards onto the back of the green in two.

i don't mind topping a ball once in a while at champ out of a fairway bunker if i hit it badly, but a more generous up-side for a well executed iron shot shouldn't be too much to ask. lw