Mod Reminder

[tryandtyoneon]

The Devil is better then the B word I get though. lol

Blonde?[/quote
Wrong but its an improvement, over the B word I get though. lol Although I did burn someones number once for a lifetime here, for referring to me a dumb Blonde. But your ok I like you fine, I never liked him the minute I met him so it turned out to be a bonus. lol

Crissy[/quote


I'm not sure but I'm betting that was me..LOL.LMAO...I'm going to search now....Not responding is fine, just as long as you keep reading them, that's all I wanted

[RR_Desperado]

From the very start of this conversation, my main point has been the adaptability of the mod conditions to the hundreds of courses that ,we all are quite aware , DO NOT fall into the "mod-friendly" catagory. Give all the linksters those conditions and you can be certain they would not be prepared to take the time to screen all the courses before slapping on those same mod conditions in arcade events. If you give it to them, they will use it.
There are many on this forum who look at me as a complainer or plain old [censored]-disturber but I tend to believe I`m more of a devil`s advocate or at least someone that says"Hey,wait a minute, before you get carried away with this, let`s look at the problems that may very well arise if something is done without sufficient forethought. I could take the attitude of others who seem to view this as a good change simply because they enjoy playing the mod. But these same people are quick to point out problems when they run into a course that does not lend itself to the use of that same mod. What do you suppose would be the reaction if they ran into a mess of unplayable events, and trust me, there would be !!
I`m sure Mark and DC would take somewhat more care but even with that we would be getting cases of players quiting events because of problems. They have an ugly 25 foot putt uphill to a green that has the hole on a ridge. After a few attempts from both sides of that ridge, the most patient player is liable to hit the "end round "button and come here to tell us all about it.
And, to be honest, I`m more concerned with how this proposed change would affect other tours than I am this one !!!

[FDS_Catherine]

RR_Desperado. I understand completely where you are coming from. You have raised some very valid concerns regarding course compatibility, and how less knowledgeable people would struggle. ( And could very possibly be put off entirely. )

Well I think the reason most of us ( I am in no way speaking out for any other mod user, as quite frankly I am not a mind-reader ) enjoy playing using the mod is obviously a mixture of enjoyment, and maybe just maybe because the stock game had quite a few flaws. ( Which did get boring very quickly. ) Maybe, just maybe it comes close to representing the real life game too.

I am in no way trying to force my opinions down anyones throat. Everyone is different, and that is what makes us unique.

As for tournament courses. A selected few who have the ability to understand pin placement, ( And a certain amount of common sense. ) should be able to go go through courses testing pins between them. ( Yes, yes I know this can be quite time consuming. But to be honest this would rule out unfair-pin positions. )

And as for courses that are not mod friendly. ( Which there are quite a few, lets be honest about this. ) It is just a matter of choosing a suitable course. ( How hard can this be? )

Well that is just my pound's worth on the matter. and for you people who are not familiar with this hobbit like currency, it is the £ sign.

One last thing before I go. ( This is not being aimed at anyone in particular. )

Things change. Most of the time for the better. But often than not for the worse. ( Usually due to ill-conceived plans. )

But surely what the coders ( Mark etc. ) are attempting to do with a tired franchise, should not only be applauded but backed 100 percent by all Links players, regardless of ability.

If I had a hat on right this minute, I would take it off to them, and bow. Not for the changes being made, but the fact that they are doing this in their spare time. ( I may be wrong. )
And for what. For years alot in the community have been crying out for changes. But when they do arrive, some people shun it completely. ( And I do know the reasons why. I am not completely silly. ) Why is it so hard to let go?

If it were me. Personally I would let it go to the great big fairway in the sky.

You are damned if you do, damned if you don't.
1.6 should be the norm for all tours. ( Just my opinion. ) Regardless of whether this makes certain courses obsolete or not. I still cannot believe this thread has ran on for 11 pages. Sheesh. Television this Christmas must be poor.

Rant over. Let the vultures hover and pick.

[FDS_Catherine]

Hi Catherine.
pop in over at apcd-courses.com.
i am certain we would like to converse with you.

Thank you Rehit. I never had the pleasure of registering for the site. But I have had many a look at it, and I must say that it does seem rather well laid out. ( Well the parts non members and un-registered users can access anyway. )

I'll have a little wander over later this afternoon to register. But for now I have to pick up a few last minute gifts for my nephews. ( Very un-feminine, leaving things to the last minute. )

[Bluenoser]

From the very start of this conversation, my main point has been the adaptability of the mod conditions to the hundreds of courses that ,we all are quite aware , DO NOT fall into the "mod-friendly" catagory. Give all the linksters those conditions and you can be certain they would not be prepared to take the time to screen all the courses before slapping on those same mod conditions in arcade events. If you give it to them, they will use it.
There are many on this forum who look at me as a complainer or plain old [censored]-disturber but I tend to believe I`m more of a devil`s advocate or at least someone that says"Hey,wait a minute, before you get carried away with this, let`s look at the problems that may very well arise if something is done without sufficient forethought. I could take the attitude of others who seem to view this as a good change simply because they enjoy playing the mod. But these same people are quick to point out problems when they run into a course that does not lend itself to the use of that same mod. What do you suppose would be the reaction if they ran into a mess of unplayable events, and trust me, there would be !!
I`m sure Mark and DC would take somewhat more care but even with that we would be getting cases of players quiting events because of problems. They have an ugly 25 foot putt uphill to a green that has the hole on a ridge. After a few attempts from both sides of that ridge, the most patient player is liable to hit the "end round "button and come here to tell us all about it.
And, to be honest, I`m more concerned with how this proposed change would affect other tours than I am this one !!!

Calling other members of the Tour idiots and clueless louts is being the devils advicate?

People quit rounds now when their score gets ugly, so what's going to be different? I'll tell you what's going to be different. Now that requals are going to be gone (thank god) even more people will be quitting than before because they don't have that option to fall back on. And that has nothing to do with the MOD.

As I mentioned previously in this thread, there are some of us who have taken the time to create a list of MOD friendly courses and even gone as far as to include recommended conditions for said courses. Obviously not all can be played at F/F. This list has been in the works for a long time and is in the possesion of Mark Hulka, as previously mentioned.


What I really find amusing is how when I mentioned a few pages back that Mark Hulka was involved along with others, it didn't matter, it was all illegal and people should go to jail. But now that a few of those involved have spoken up all of a sudden it's OK.

[Larry_Warrilow]

one of the reasons that this site has had a large player population throughout its history is that it has conducted a large number of events on a weekly basis that have appealed to the widest possible variety of links ability, and appetite (or lack of it) for challange, and its been pretty easy to play and submit stats and get ranked etc etc. 1.05 allowed the tour admin to set playable pin locations on a fairly generic basis no matter what the green conditions. there is no way in the past that the admin could have managed upwards of 100 events per week without this method.

1.06 pin location requirements, even on 1.06 friendly tracks are much more stringent. at 1.06 f/f, many 1.06 friendly greens still offer only a few usable hole locations. this is the way it should be architecturally, but as a result, 1.06 events, even on friendly tracks, need a careful hole by hole choice of hole locations when the green conditions are extremely fast. this may not be possible unless the 1.06ers can supply the admin with usable 1.06 f/f locations for each friendly course in official lspn 1.06 events. otherwise the official 1.06 events here may not be much fun for the participants, and won't be a fair test of the 1.06 patch on this site. lw

_________

[FDS_Catherine]

Larry, I totally agree with what you have said. But lets be honest here, the mod is not just about playing with F/F.

Why is it when people mention the mod, they automatically have to mention speeds of F/F?

There are other playable speeds using the mod too. take F/M or M/F. What about M/M or M/S etc. Which also offer an excellent alternative. How many courses would you use F/F on anyway? ( Not too many, would be my answer. )

[Larry_Warrilow]

C, all 1.05 greens are by and large playable by generic hole location choices even at f/f. 1.06, while having playable hole locations on friendly tracks at most green conditions, do have severe hole location restrictions when extreme green conditions are in tournament play, and these conditions have to be allowed for. it's a major difference between the two patches when it comes to making generic choices of hole locations by the admin, and thus requires special individual attention to these locations which have not previously been in his job description. lw
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[FDS_Catherine]

Yes I agree. But surely it would not be too difficult if you were going to play a course using F/F, to hand out the task of pin researching on certain courses, to a team of people who have some common sense.

Thus freeing up the Admin's time for other matters. ( But ultimately the Admin would have to re-check which pins were chosen and placed. )

Not a tall order by any means.

[Rehit]

i think there needs to be a deeper understanding of the Mod.

basically what it does is double the combination of conditions available to a player, or tour director.

the conditions and pins must be chosen to suit the particular course you are going to play.
the Mod came about because we were trying to reproduce IRL conditions we have seen in PGA tour play.

the Mod was created to accompany the Augusta National file.
many designers have attended my annual Master's party, and have seen the course 1st hand.
i have the priveledge of playing the real course from time to time, and we really wanted it to play true to life.

i think the team got it pretty close.

the distance added to the click swing type was to level the playing field between clicking and RTS.
it was also done to allow players driving averages to become closer to what is seen on the PGA tour.
we have hit the driving averages very closely.

this fact is supported by thousands of rounds by the players on the OWGC Tour for the last two years.
we have a very large team of testers, comprised of the tour players, who play about 200 rounds a week.
10,000 rounds a year is a pretty large sample.

none of this was done without some of the most rigorous testing any PC game has ever seen.
the Mod was in developement and testing for over 2 years.
any tournament director that is up to snuff spends a great deal of time setting up a course for a tournament.
this is the same IRL.
pin selection and conditions are critical.

you should not blame a nasty setup on the Mod, but on the person who did not set the course up wisely.

we are also working on other things that will improve the designers ability to create true to life courses.

we have been modifying texture properties for quite some time now.
one of the pluses from that is being able to have golfballs (you censor the word b a l l s ?) roll back into bunkers as they do IRL.
no more ridiculous lies on the vertical faces of bunkers.

everyone keeps begging for a new version, and there is a team of very dedicated people trying to grant their wish.
the main difference is, we are listening to people, and we will actually respond to your questons and suggestions.
anyone who would like to participate in the discussion of these developements is encouraged to do so.

you may register at apcd-cpourses.com by choosing the free singup option.

here is a little something we are working on at this point, among other things...



feel free to run in circles, screaming "the sky is falling", or to post some specific changes you might like to see in the game or the designer...

Merry Christmas to all.

please drop in when you find the time Catherine.
we can always use another experienced coder to advance the cause.

[gibby]

Why not leave F/F out of the mix until everthing else works, it can be added at a later date when pin placements are corrected

[Larry_Warrilow]

there are 1.06 guys who have an organized database of 1.06 hole locations (rick[fourputt] is one), but who is going to make the first offer of help to the lspn admin in this matter? well conducted 1.06 events will surely require a good deal more care than 1.05 in the past. lw

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[FDS_Catherine]

I knew alot of that work was going on Rehit. And I am really excited right now that I am a Links player.

We have never had it so good.

[Larry_Warrilow]

C, i must agree that we have never had it so good. lw

____

[FDS_Catherine]

Sorry Rehit, but I have had very bad experiences in the past working on community mods. And quite frankly I would never help/do another.

Simply because of all the hours I had put into these mods, and time away from loved ones. For the community to tear them apart. Not because they were bad. But because they were scared of change. The simple phrase, " if it aint broke, don't fix it " was a commonly used one.

And my fellow modders just had enough.

That is why I am for everything that Mark is doing for this community. Not only for seeing this project come to life, but also having the mental strength to see it through to whatever conclusion that may be.

All the while the doomsdayers and naysayers are nit-picking at everything he is doing.

The whole team should be given an award.